Hirsch, whose campaign for cultural literacy has resulted in several hundred whole schools designed around his specific nuggets of information all children should be expected to learn, went up against another prominent author and reformer, Ted Sizer, in a debate about education standards. Standards won, but they certainly look different, depending on which of the reformers is describing them.

Sizer, who founded the Coalition of Essential Schools, insisted that coherent standards are needed but must grow from the values of teachers and parents within a school. Setting these kinds of standards leads to "unfamiliar places" and is very hard to do, but "when smart, devoted peple are given running room to shape standards, students succeed," he said.

Part of the divisions between Hirsch and Sizer stem from their grade-level focus. Hirsch worries mostly about elementary schools, Sizer about high schools. Therefore, when asked what the standards should be for students, they gave very different responses. "Students should be able to read and know basic number facts by the end of the first grade," Hirsch said. "Students should leave school as well-informed skeptics, able to ask good questions as a matter of habit," said Sizer.

Both agreed that testing results reflect reading levels in elementary grades, but Sizer questioned further uses of tests. Telling reporters that they haven't asked what tests suggest about students, he gave his strong opinion: "They correlate with rich parents and not much else. We have to stop equating serious education with test scores."